Florida attorney, former RNLA First Vice President and current RNLA
Advisory Council Member Thomas Spencer recently shared his story with RNLA Florida Chapter Leader Pedro Allende. Read about why he became a lawyer, and other issues facing national security. For links to other interviews and more details on our Florida Chapter, check out RNLA's Florida Facebook page.
1. Aside from being a lawyer,
please tell us a bit about your background in the area of intelligence and
national security.
My interest began as an intern and aide to Florida
Congressman Charlie Bennett (D. Jax Fla). I worked for him in Washington and
then in Florida during his campaign for the Senate. He was the Vice-Chairman of
the House Armed Services Committee and assigned me to work on Military issues.
He was also on the House Intel Committee and a WWII hero. When I started
practicing law, I became counsel to and then Trustee of a Trust for Russian
citizens. My job was to distribute money behind the Iron Curtain to these
beneficiaries and insure that they, not the government, were getting the money.
This went on for quite some time and I worked occasionally through the State
Department and with the official state-owned Russian law firm to get them these periodic
payments, which were substantial to them. I was introduced to Ted
Shackley, who was the Associate Director of Operations of the CIA and had been
stationed in Miami, as head of the CIA operation known as "JM
WAVE". It was the largest operation outside of Langley HQ and
employed over 1500 employees, many of whom were Cubans who worked undercover
and many of whom are prominent citizens today--who have never revealed their
covers. The University of Miami was the cover for JM WAVE and the HQ was
at the South Campus. Several adjunct
professors were actually CIA Officers. Shackley became head of CIA in Laos and other
locations and became quite famous. He is somewhat infamously depicted in an
unauthorized book "The Blond Ghost" and in his own book, "Spy
Master", published after his death.
Early in my law career, I was introduced to many notable
"Spy Masters", became a Life Member of the Association of Former
Intelligence Officers, received their highest award for contributions to the
Intel Community, and was recruited by John Sears (former head of the RNC) to
take on some cases at the request of Reagan DCI Casey. I was asked to represent
General Richard Secord, CIA officer Thomas Clines, General John K. Singlaub,
and members of the Nicaraguan Opposition Army (the "Contras") and others. I continued to take on
cases and sensitive matters relating to intelligence officers. After 9/11, I
was asked to volunteer for the Coast Guard to help organize a test program
called "Operation On Guard" (like a waterway neighborhood watch). It
was an intelligence program to train captains to watch for terrorism
suspects. The Coast Guard then took it nationwide and we received a
Commendation from the Commandant. My law partners never knew what I was doing,
but it was fun to make them salute me in uniform. Intel officers in the
Clandestine Service are generally left out in the cold when they retire and
need help sometimes with the "afterglow" of their careers.
Such was the case for Ted Shackley, when a left wing
group called the Christic Institute launched a well-financed
lawsuit aided by Hillary Clinton in Miami Federal Court. There were 23 defendants,
almost all of whom were former CIA officers. We won the case and Cert. was
denied in the Supreme Court. We won $1.2 Million in Sanctions and put the group
out of business. I have since acted as private counsel, in with CIA on
occasion, when officers need help. Currently I am handling Italy v. Robert
Seldon Lady, an officer who retired after an extraordinary rendition in Italy
of an Egyptian jihadist. He was convicted in absentia and I requested a pardon
by the President of Italy. It is a widely reported matter on the internet and
is an example of the tragedy that can follow an officer after a life of secret
service to our nation. It is fundamentally unfair and I have fought to
have officers like Bob made whole in recognition of their contribution at the
point of the spear. Sometimes I have actually been successful. But memories
fade quickly as we move away from 9/11.
2. What
kinds of threats are the U.S. and U.S. companies currently facing?
Because
our systems are so interrelated, and our grids so interdependent, huge attacks
can put us back into the 4th Century. The Intel Community believes that
systems have been placed into our cybersystems by China, Russia and Iran which
will lie in wait for tactical time to strike. It is not a secret that these
fears are a high priority and an effort is underway to seek them out. The USA
is being attacked hourly by various groups of hackers, some state-sponsored--
who are retrieving identities, social security numbers, credit card data, etc.
at a furious pace. USA companies are therefore facing exposure from our
enemies, gangs of hackers, lawyers suing them for negligence in the maintenance
of defensive systems, and the US government which is increasingly aggressive as
voters scream outrage at the plundering of their property. It is an ugly scene.
It is causing fear and trepidation, loss of confidence in the commercial and
monetary systems—precisely what our enemies want.
3. We have seen an
uptick in state-sponsored cyber incidents in recent years in both the private
and public arenas. How do should we be dealing with this problem?
I think that we are doing all we can. The Obama
Administration has been aggressive in pushing the business and public sectors
to get on top of the daily variations of attack mechanisms. This is a
case, in my view where more and more is better. It is also a question of
Science and we have the best and brightest at work. Unfortunately, I suspect
that working in the Labs are agents of foreign governments stealing our
innovations. We are educating some of them. We cannot do anything about that as
an open and somewhat free society. In our book, I have placed an appendix
of the programs launched by the Obama Administration to get industry and
government sharing data and innovations. We just need to innovate faster
and better—and we will.
4. Do you see this
more as an attempt to acquire our IP or as a search for information to exploit
people for the benefit of foreign governments?
We have been stealing secrets and exploiting agents in
Russia and China and elsewhere for decades. They are doing it to
us. They feel morally justified in engaging in theft and it also happens
to be profitable. We simply do not have enough FBI agents or enough bold CIA
officers to compete with what the Russians and Chinese are doing to us.
We are swamped. Think about the numbers of Chinese and Russian students, etc.
in the USA. These are highly disciplined people and it takes an army of FBI
agents to track them down. Moreover, we have the Snowdens of our own country to
deal with. So we are in a State of undeclared War and we do not have the
resources to do anything but pick at it. President Obama's "agreement"
with the Chinese to lay down cyber weapons was a plea for mercy. The Chinese
and Russians want every discovery and innovation we have. And, in addition,
they want anything they can steal to exploit intelligence officers, cover
companies, etc.
5. Given the recent
controversy about Hilary Clinton's private server, how serious is that breach
from a legal perspective and a national security perspective?
It is huge. Given what I have said above, the
Chinese, Russians, Iranians, Cubans, WIKI LEAKS, must be feasting on the juicy
info in those emails. Being occasionally cynical and having litigated with her
(American Physicians vs. Clinton), I wonder whether this excuse covers an
intentional act. Did she leave the Safe Open on purpose? None of us will
probably have the evidence unless the next Administration launches a full
inquiry. But who knows what was in the emails? For example, does she
opine where President Obama was on the night of Benghazi when he disappeared
and could not be reached? From both a legal perspective and a national security
perspective, this is a huge case. If you or I or anyone else in the government
had done this, we would be ( or should be ) lawyered up, wearing the Fifth
Amendment.
6. With the U.S.
government's foray into cyber war like the Stuxnet virus that took down
centrifuges in Iran, have we opened Pandora's box?
It was already opened. This has been going on a
long time between governments, but it has been at a low level. The attacks on
USA companies and government are just opening salvos and a type of "grey
mail". Unless we devise a different, more aggressive approach, we
are in for lots of pain. But maybe we will innovate out of the mess. We
developed Stealth technology and lots of other miracles—we need another big
one.
7. How does this
end? Are there parallels to be drawn to America's entrance into WWII (are we
being drawn into this by hostile acts) or to the space race (are we competing
and trying to develop a competitive advantage)?
I am not nearly smart or experienced enough to suggest
"an end." My guess is that we continue to spar. Unless a
nutcase like North Korea sparks a nuclear war that we are not prepared
for. A destroyed USA destroys the world economy. Without WalMart,
China is toast. Our global economy is so interdependent, an economic flu
in a major country might bring a heart attack somewhere else. But our
beloved America is right up against a wall. Massive debt, huge unemployment,
social upheaval--- we all know the parameters are ugly and getting massively uglier
by the day. We have abandoned the manned "space race". We
now have to ride on Russian rockets at whatever price they want to charge.
Obama closed the Moon project and China is about to launch a massive program to
land on and mine the Moon for Helium 3 and other important minerals. The European Space Agency and the
Russians have just announced a joint extensive Moon Base project. We have no
similar program. There is no definitive Moon Treaty. We
will de-orbit the space station probably by 2021. We gave the manned
space program to friends of President Obama—SpaceX—and the first launch
exploded—costing millions of lost precious tax dollars. It is another fine mess.
And it will take 20 years (if we start today) to straighten it out.